Interview with Stephan Dube for FX Mogul

February 16, 2009

Originally hosted at http://www.fxmogul.com/articles/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleName=feature_Mark_Coleran

Hello Mark, Thanks for taking the time and meet up with FXMogul.

Please introduce yourself and tell us what you are currently working on??

My name is Mark Coleran and I'm a visual designer. I have worked over a period of almost 20 years in print and motion graphic design on a huge variety of projects ranging from corporate presentation work through to title design, channel branding and visual effects. Over the years I specialized in designing computer interfaces for films. I recently made a switch and went from the fantasy interfaces to working on and creating real interfaces for creative software. I am working now with Gridiron Software in Ottawa on a new type of software for creative pros, called Flow.

Can you please tell us a little bit more about Flow and how it works?

Flow is a pretty revolutionary idea, we've been working on. It is a unique new way of letting people view and manage their work. From a personal standpoint, as a creative artist, I was witnessing an explosion in the volume and size of the files I needed to create in order to produce a piece of finished work. I am ultra-organized but even I was struggling to contain the deluge, especially when under pressure. I started thinking about ways in which that could change and I had a few ideas. By chance, I got talking to the guys at Gridiron and it turned out they had been working on exactly the same problem. The problem is down to the complex work that people create today, the old arrangement of files and folders is breaking down - there is simply too much stuff. Work gets used in several places and it becomes impossible to organize. Add to that the extra strains of versioning files, keeping track of the time you have spent, packaging everything together in order to share with others or to archive. You can end up with a real mess on your hands. What we've done with Flow is attempt to cutoff all those sharp edges. We have developed a way of tracking everything users do automatically on their computers without them having to do anything extra or even change the way they work. It sounds very 'big brother', but it is not. More like a big sister, looking out for you. With this knowledge we can see how things are put together; how you work to create something, how long it took and even automatically version files every-time you save something.

Perhaps this doesn't sound too remarkable, until you open Flow. You can take any single file that you created as part of a larger project and open it, to see Flow show you a map of the entire project and how it was put together. What you use, where it is used. If you need to send it elsewhere you can be sure of grabbing every part of the project, not just the bit that was created in a particular application. It is hard to describe in words just how this looks so would really recommend checking it out on the website. We are doing a public beta from February 18th. Gridiron Software Homepage

How exactly did you get into this field of work?

It was a long and gradual path. I have always had an interest in information design and I do not see a huge difference between that and the fictional interfaces in films and real UI work. I had always had a long fascination not so much with aircraft but the cockpits. All these small elements had an influence on what I liked and what I wanted to do. It was until I was working for a special effects company at Pinewood studios, doing 3D previz work, which my path intersected with that of a guy called Simon Staines at a group called Useful Companies. They were creating interfaces for films and with a great deal of persistence I got some work with them. Simon is an exceptional artist and I credit him with most of what I learned. Design wise and the attention to detail.

You have worked on big title Hollywood movies such as Mr. & Mrs. Smith, Mission Impossible 3, when working on these types of movies does you have to follow any lead design/style? Or is it up to you to create one?

Designing for screen is not so different from any other type of design. You have to be sensitive to the clients brief. Outside of that you have a good reign to create something appropriate for the screen. I generally class the screens into three categories. Realistic. Kind of realistic and Fantasy (or fluff). Obviously for realistic, the design has to reflect a certain reality and has to look like it could something genuine. For kind of realistic screens you start with realism and can add a bit f style. You can't go too far off the path of plausibility. For the fantasy screens you have a wide open brief and are essentially given a free reign, dependent on course that it fits within the production designer and directors vision. Contrary to popular perception, these are actually some of the harder screens to create. Freedom in design has its own problems and constraints can make for a more rewarding and challenging project. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1268048/

What are your primary software tools you use?

It is funny, for years I always regarded myself as an After Effects artist, but when i took a long hard look at what I did and how, I realized that 90% of my work is in Photoshop and Illustrator. All the design is put together in massive multilayered documents. The last step is to take into After Effects and do the animation. As complex as a lot of the stuff looks, it is actually pretty simple. The methods and techniques I use for animation tend to be more in keeping with cell animation than key-framed motion graphics; I do use occasional expressions for small elements as well. The end result of course, from After Effects is a movie, but the screens appear to have an interactive element to them. After running them out from After Effects, I process them further through an old tool called Debabelizer, essentially throwing away a lot of the unneeded information and color. It makes for very compact and fast playing movies. The movies themselves have a lot sequences in them with the interactive part built into the animation. We would then use a custom QT layer to jump around the movie via hot-keys to give the impression of interaction.

These days doing the real UI work, I live inside a tool called Omnigraffle. It has its frustrations and limitations but works well for going deeper into the design. I still use a lot of the old techniques for mocking up the designs I create.

What are some key words to make a first-class UI work?

Focus, clarity, order, care.

In your opinion what makes an superb UI?

Such a simple answer, but unfortunately difficult in implementation. Does it do what it is supposed to do, and not get in the way of the user? Does it even make their life easier? If the answer is yes, then it is a good UI.

We are starting to see some new trends with UI's such as the "pinch effect" on the iPod or the mutli touch screen do you see any new technology coming in the near future?

The context of the question is slightly incorrect. It should not be what we will be coming along on the near future, more a case of when. There are some incredible technologies out there and they all in their own way, slowly make it into everyday devices. More what we tend to get is a continual refinement of existing technology that incorporates new techniques into its use. For example; the iPhone. Big and radical changes do not always see the light of day, at least not in the consumer context. They can always have niches that are perfect for them, but integration into consumer products can take along while. Minority is obviously a touchstone for the idea of large scale interactive surfaces, but those ideas were already floating around before the film was made. What happens in the films is that lab and garage projects can inspire to create something that looks and works like it is real, but that only fills that gap between the project stage and those ideas becoming a visible reality. Unfortunately the film sometimes gets credit for those things.

As far as trends go, I cant think of any single technology that would stand out, but it seems that people have finally got the idea, with some great leaders in the design field, that great UI and interaction is a selling point and a lot of that cool tech will find its way into out everyday devices.

What do you think the next generation of multi touch interface will be used?

I think the large multi-touch interfaces, as brilliant as they are, will always be for specialized purposes. There are places and environments where they could be perfect for large interactions such as in education, business, museums public access point for information and assistance etc. The place where I personally would see them being used a great deal in personal contexts is addition and in compensation for controls that were always lacking in current devices such as laptops and phones. Of course this is happening now, with obvious examples.

What are the challenges of making an interface for a software that really surprise you?

There were not really any surprises. It is a huge change to go from film UI to real UI, but the underlying process is not too different. The major challenge is the iteration. Instead of 1 or 2 iterations and job done, there are hundreds. It is something that never stops and keeping the enthusiasm is a difficult thing. What I have focused on is where it will be and where it can go, and think of the release as getting it in the can. Although pragmatism and development schedules bring their own frustrations, it is incredible to think that you are creating something that is real and will be used again and again. Something that will not be in the bargain basket in blockbuster 2 weeks after release on DVD.

Do you usually see trends in Interfaces Designs within software's or in movies UI's and if so what is the current trend right now?

I can't say that I see a trend as such, but I do see some problems with movie UI's. I watch those particular things with a very keen eye. What I do notice, and know from experience is that budgets and schedules have decreased massively over the years. The workload and requirements have gone up massively as well. It makes it difficult for some of the brilliant artists out there, to really have the time to come up with unique designs that work for that movie. By the very nature of it you have to fall back on a lot of previous work just to get the projects out the door. There are exceptions but rarely.

As far as software is concerned, I personally think the outlook is way more positive. Developers have come to realize that they can no longer cram more and more features into a piece of software and need to look elsewhere to add value to what they produce. There does seem to be a trend to massively improving the interaction and visual design of legacy software. It is a tough and slow process as legacy systems by their nature bring their past with them, but they are getting better all the time.

Where you involved with any of the Adobe CS4 Beta program? Anything we should be thanking you for?

I was involved in a minor way, just as a user. It is difficult to get time to dedicate to testing and contributing fully as I can no longer throw it into production. You always make suggestions but I can't take credit for anything there. One thing I was advocating for many years did make it in eventually (I'm sure I'm not the only one) but I am not saying what it was, as people either love or hate it, with no in between.

What websites do you usually got for inspiration or simply looking at other designer's portfolios? Also any mentors?

I have drawn inspiration from many sources over the years. The aforementioned Simon Staines, was a huge influence and great artist. I have always loved Tufte's work and books. Information Aesthetics Blog and Flowing Data are also favorites. There are also people like Angie Taylor and Trish & Chris Meyer who have been a great source of knowledge over the years. As a self taught artist it would have been impossible without those people. Outside of that there a a myriad of great people I have had the opportunity and pleasure of working with and those not always ones tied directly into UI. The broader the inspiration, sometimes the more inspired the solutions.

What are the types of projects that really like to work on?

The only type of project I would say I like it's a difficult one. It can be easy to rest on your laurels and turn stuff out that people still like, but does not challenge you in its creation. The harder and more challenging projects are where you get to push yourself and learn something new.

Do you have any advice or career tips and tricks you want to share with us?

I read somewhere once that luck is nothing more than preparation meets opportunity. I could not agree more. Know what you want to do and just do it. Whether you are working in that area or not, the fact that you are trying to do it, will mean you are a lot more prepared when those opportunities happen. The very process of being so engaged almost creates them.

Have you ever thought of working in other fields as a User Interface designer? (video games, motion design)

I have thought about games and opportunities have occasionally presented themselves. Unfortunately it is also a matter of timing and they haven't always fallen at those right time to take advantage of them. My background is in Graphics and motion graphics so have already done a lot of work in that area.

What's next for ya? What type of projects would you like to work on in the near future? Are you thinking of going back in the movie industry?

For now I am happily engaged with the project at Gridiron and will be for the foreseeable future. There is a huge opportunity there to create something unique. The scope and possibilities for Flow are fantastic. I have not forgotten though that I am primarily trying to create a tool here that is something I can use as a creative and it is important that I do not drift to far away from that domain. I do try and keep my hand in, on interesting little projects that come up from time to time, but for now my main focus is Flow.

Any events you will be speaking too or presenting anytime soon?

I just did a few sessions for Spark FX in Vancouver which was a superb little festival. There is nothing lined up in the immediate future but I will be at Broadcast Video Expo 2009 at Earls Court 2 in London from the 17th February - 19th February. We will be launching the public beta of Flow there so anyone in the area, feel free to drop by and say hello. Adobe Stand: C10 (8.5m x 9m)

Thanks so much Mark for taking the time to answer our questions we really appreciate your time on this.

It has been my pleasure. Thanks.